I read something on the internet the other day. Here is the link: http://ocduk.org/types-ocd
This is me.
Violent Intrusive Thoughts – obsessive fears of carrying out violent acts against loved ones or other people. Intrusive thoughts include:
Violently harming children or loved ones.
Killing innocent people.
Using kitchen knives and other sharp objects (compulsion will include locking away knives and sharp objects).
Jumping in front of a train or fast moving bus.
Poisoning the food of loved ones (compulsion will include avoiding cooking for family).
Acting on unwanted impulses, e.g. running someone over, stabbing someone.
Thoughts about accidentally touching someone inappropriately, with the aim of hurting them.Most sufferers with these types of fears often end up labelling themselves as a bad person, simply for having the thoughts. They falsely believe that having the thoughts mean they are capable of acting upon them. The constant analysing and questioning of these disturbing aspects of OCD becomes incredibly upsetting and because of the nature of the thoughts many sufferers are reluctant to open up to health professionals to seek help, fearing they may be labelled.
A person with these types of intrusive thoughts will avoid public places like shopping centres and other places, where social interaction may be required, to avoid coming into close contact with people that may trigger the obsessive thoughts.
To sufferers and non-sufferers alike, the thoughts and fears related to OCD can often seem profoundly shocking . It must be stressed, however, that they are just thoughts, and they are not voluntarily produced. Neither are they fantasies or impulses which will be acted upon.
J didn’t understand when I told him about this, and, let me tell you, it was not easy to talk about. He thought I was talking about fantasies. He told me that he had a fantasy that his wife was dead and everyone was feeling sorry for him, and that is a normal fantasy when you think that you are taking care of everyone all the time and not getting cared for. Or he had a fantasy about shooting a guy’s tires out because he cut him off on the road.
When I told him these aren’t fantasies he tried to make them logical. Like if I have the urge to stab my husband in the back with a kitchen knife it is probably because I am annoyed with him for snoring and keeping me up in the night.
He never understood. But maybe whoever wrote this website understands. However, I am not sure if what I have is OCD, or if I am just an evil person. J told me that thoughts are not actions. But thoughts can be bad. And it’s not always thoughts, it often feels like a very strong urge. I don’t know what that is, and why I have that. My aunt told me she has it too, so maybe it is some genetic fault in our family. Badness in the genes.
I’ve never seen this before. Therapists always say “all thoughts are normal” but not all actions. I don’t know about OCD but I know you’re not evil.
This is a pretty common form of OCD, and a good psychiatrist will be able to do a proper diagnosis and help you with the appropriate meds and counseling. Your Art T is probably not qualified to assess you on this, sorry. I have OCD (mine is a different form, it relates to leaving the stove on and a compulsion to keep returning home to check that it’s really off)… I *do* know how debilitating it can be. Anyhoooo… OCD is a mental illness, clear and simple. It has nothing to do with being bad or evil, and it’s very treatable. Do yourself a favour, and get assessed by someone who specializes on OCD (*not a psychotherapist or a social worker… an actual psychiatrist who specializes).
Grace – I even read a book about it. It was kind of a relief to know other people have it, but it still freaks me out. Thank you for thinking I’m not evil, if you knew my thoughts you might think otherwise. I don’t believe that all thoughts are normal. What is normal anyway?
Catherine – I have been diagnosed with OCD by two different psychiatrists, and I was given a prescription, that I filled, but never took. I know that Art T can’t diagnose me, and J couldn’t either, but I thought he could help me in some way, but he didn’t even understand it. I won’t take SSRI’s, so I guess I am a noncompliant client and I have no right to complain. I actually think the wellbutrin I take might make the OCD worse. If that is what I have. I’m still not convinced, one day I think it is totally me, the next day I don’t. Too bad there is no blood test for it. I’m sorry that you have OCD – I have that type too, but I have developed systems so that I don’t have to keep going back to check on things.
Hi Harriet my guess is that ArtT will understand if you tell her.
As to whether you are evil: well, how many people have you enjoyed torturing and killing lately? It is very unlikely that you are evil at your core. It is very likely you have done some things you feel guilty or ashamed of (like most of us). If this qualifies you as evil you are the member of a very large club (roughly the same size as humanity I would guess).
I think J was heady and tried to process his (and your) emotions through thinking. I don’t think this works and my guess is that you are a more heart than head person – and all our cultural training and evaluations are largely about head stuff – which puts heart people in a very difficult place.
If the thoughts that come to you are violent it may be you have stored up anger or resentment from the past. I hope you have, or soon get to talk to, ArtT about this.
well, it must be a relief to have it described. It does sound like J was missing the boat , and perhaps if you’d had this bit of description, it might have been helpful.
Do the intrusive thoughts/fantasies/urges/compulsions (what would you call them?) to hurt others feel the same as the urges to harm yourself? Do they serve the same function?
Evan – she might understand. I have not actually tortured or killed anyone (although my kids might say I torture them with my nagging!), but even to think the thoughts is very disturbing. And who knows what could happen – what about the people who walk into a movie theater or an elementary school and shoot everyone they see? Maybe they had these thoughts before they did those horrible things. I think J at least appreciated the seriousness of how this affected me when he asked me how often I had these thoughts and I told him I had them every day. I remember being a kid and having bad thoughts, so maybe it is from something long ago, or maybe it is a chemical imbalance.
Laura – yes, it is a relief to have it described. And it was a relief when my aunt told me she has those thoughts, even thought I wouldn’t wish this on anyone.
I call them intrusive thoughts and that is a good question you ask. I don’t ever feel the urge, or think the thought, to hurt myself anymore, but I still have intrusive thoughts. I know the function of self harm, but I don’t know the function of intrusive thoughts, and I’m not sure there is a function. I think it is more of a neuron malfunction.
You always ask such good questions, thank you.
i’m sorry you are not following up on treatment, because i really don’t feel like you deserve to suffer with these thoughts. i am glad, though, that you have an official diagnosis. from two diff. psychs, no less. what else do you need to hear to believe the diagnosis? as you probably know from setting up your systems re. the stove, there are specific techniques to dealing with the thoughts and behaviours, and a therapist who is NOT trained in them (as nice as they may be, personally) cannot help. at least that’s what i think. it’s like asking the dentist to change your tires, or something.
also… i’ve always used this example when talking to people about depression. if you had a broken leg, would you not go to the doctor and get an x-ray, get a cast, get rehab??? you have a mental illness, there is no shame in seeking treatment.
Catherine – I guess in order to accept the diagnosis I need to get over my issues about being sick. That is a big problem in my life. And I don’t think I can go to a regular therapist plus an OCD therapist, and I didn’t want to give up my therapy to find someone who could just work with the intrusive thoughts. As for the broken leg vs mental illness – yes I would get treatment for a broken leg. And I do believe there is shame in mental illness, at least here in my country. Even the insurance companies handle it differently. In addition, the treatment for a broken leg is pretty straightforward and proven, while the treatments for mental illnesses seem more of an art than a science. As I mentioned, I tried multiple SSRIs and decided to give them up due to the side effects (and I was on them for 6 years, so it’s not like I didn’t give them a good try).
I’m not trying to argue with you, I just want to say that it’s not as easy as you make it seem.
Interesting. Did you try any other meds besides SSRIs? I”m tempted to agree w ith you that wellbutrin could be activating for OCD type thoughts. Have you ever tried a tricyclic? Clompiramine (anafranil, a tricyclic) is supposed to be a first line of treatment for OCD, but I’m not very familiar with different types of OCD.
I have experienced similar violent thoughts at times. I call them intrusive thoughts or occasionally just violent thoughts, though they are always intrusive. I do not have OCD but I find those thoughts increase during periods when my depression (major depression, severe, recurrent) is in a more severe phase. They decrease when my depression is under better control.
Sometimes I feel like I have all the mental ‘diseases’, but I don’t have OCD, so what I say is theoretical. I hear you about the SSRIs – I also was told I must take them, and tried for years, but they don’t really work for me, and the side-effects stick around.
I personally haven’t found the ‘broken brain’ theory helpful, though I know many do. I kind of think symptoms are a defense – a screen that blocks out other deeper feelings. I have found for anxiety in general, it is like a screen for other feelings which I can’t bear to feel. Once I feel the feelings, the anxiety goes away.
I do think there are many ways to approach OCD, not just one way. I’d recommend bringing this up with Art T and see what she thinks about it. Maybe she has some way of working with this.
One thing I do know for sure is that you’re not ‘evil’. Those mass murderers had other things going on than OCD – not sure, but often they say it’s paranoid schizophrenia and a psychotic break. Nothing like OCD, much much more severe. We all have aggressive thoughts that mostly we’re not aware of – maybe for some reason you are aware of them.
Thoughts do not make you a bad person. I actually thought only Catholics believed that….
Very interested to see where you go with this in the future. Good luck with it.
The ‘broken brain’ thing can be helpful or not. For some it gives the sense that they need to get on with doing something about a real problem; for others a sentence that leads to resignation and giving up. Reactions can vary and the same symptoms can have different causes, mental health can gat tricky
Katie – no, I have never tried any other meds, although I do take wellbutrin and klonopin. I looked up Anafranil and it does say a first line treatment for OCD, but lots of side effects. And it can’t be used by people with kidney disease, which is me. I should keep better track of when these thoughts occur, maybe they are associated with times of depression. I haven’t actually been diagnosed with depression, despite being suicidal a couple of years ago.
Ellen – Which is better – to have a broken brain, or to be evil? It’s a toss up. I wonder, if I didn’t have any anxiety or depression would my thoughts go away? The time in my life when they were the worst was when my children were babies and toddlers. Maybe my anxiety was the worst then as well? I did have terrible, almost debilitating, anxiety in those days, that I felt I had to hide constantly, which made it doubly worse. I’ll mention the OCD to Art T and see what she says.
J is Catholic, and he said thoughts are not actions. I don’t think he was a very good Catholic however.
I hate to jump into the conversation mid-way, but still wanted to say a little something.
I think it’s brave and courageous of you to write about what you’re struggling with, and I feel that there is an answer out there for you. Yes, you may need to see a different therapist, but it’s not as though you need to see one, alone, right away. You don’t have to make any sudden changes … perhaps just get the ball rolling by talking with your Art T about this, and asking for some additional help.
I cannot imagine how tough this must be to deal with, and hope that you reach out even further. You are worthy of a healthy and productive future, one you can live well in. You can live with OCD, and get through it. Have you checked out this blog: http://bringingalongocd.blogspot.com/
Tina is hugely inspiring and has taken her diagnosis into her own hands (in many ways). I hope it helps.
Amanda – no problem about jumping in…I always appreciate comments. Thank you for the link….I wonder if I have had this form of OCD for decades and didn’t know what it was, and was too afraid to talk to anyone about it. Really J is the first person I have told, and the only person I have told besides here on my blog. I will definitely check out her blog, and I feel comfortable talking to Art T about this, but right now other things have taken priority.